Talk:Episode 221: Adam Raised a Cain

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Contents 1 Springsteen again 2 Title and notes 3 Who is Weaver? 4 Sarah's cancer? 5 Cast cutting down? 6 Who called the cops? 7 Who wanted to get Savannah and why? 8 Water Delivery Guy notes/talk

Springsteen again

So... this episode and the next are named after Bruce Springsteen songs... Elwyn5150

Title and notes

It's been a while, a...a long while since I have looked at the bible, but isn't Adam the father of Cain? Thus, making sense out of "Adam raised a Cain." --Terran Officer 01:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Cain and Abel are sons of Adam and Eve. -Wikicide 20:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Who is Weaver?

Catherine Weaver is talking with Ellison about John Henry's survival may be important for Savannah's and Ellison's (thus mankind's?) survival. A last big hint that Weaver is not on Skynet's side? -Wikicide 20:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

See also Q&A on "What did Weaver mean when she said survival depended on John Henry?"

That is incorrect. In The Terminator it was established that disposal units were utilized in the Skynet Work Camps to take care of humans that had outlived their usefulness. -Nx1701g 04:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Sarah's cancer?

Before Sarah interrupted them, Cameron told John that Sarah lost weight (although the breast lump was a transmitter) - a sign for cancer (compare "Self Made Man")... -Wikicide 20:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it was heavily implied by Cameron that Sarah actually does have, or is going to have cancer (despite the transmitter issues). This discussion however, was interrupted when Sarah walked in and told John to wake Savannah up. --Terran Officer 20:54, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Cast cutting down?

Hm, seems that the producers of the show are making room for new characters in a season 3 as all important supporting characters are more or less gone now: Riley, Jesse, Derek, Charley -Wikicide 20:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Not certain what this is going for, I myself am not counting on a third season, but it's likely we'd get a batch of new characters if we did. Further more, some of these deaths were implied to begin with, but it is a large amount of established characters...it does however, fit in within the establishment that those around John do (and will) die.--Terran Officer 20:56, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

"it does however, fit in within the establishment that those around John do (and will) die" => Yes, you are right, so it all makes perfectly sense (but maybe the show makers didn't know much what to do else with Derek). -Wikicide 18:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

It kinda bugs me that they go through all of the trouble of making Derek into a major character who has all of this military training and experience fighting Terminators... only to have him basically walk right into a fatal head shot? No heroics, no drama, just a turn-the-corner-and-pow. Seemed kind of anti-climactic to me.--Kbfixit 15:59, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

As I wrote here, I kinda like his death scene (not his death itself): It was totally surprising, came out of nowhere and was unspectacular - a terminator as a highly precise killing machine plus bad luck for Derek. Brilliant! -Wikicide 18:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Derek's death has been implied since the beginning of the season. Good examples of this were in "Goodbye to All That" ("We die for you." when talking about Martin Bedell) and "The Good Wound" (Kyle Reese morphs into Derek in Sarah's eyes). -Nx1701g 03:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Nice analysis - I guess you could interpret a lot more in TSCC. Nevertheless his death itself at this scene was IMO surprising. -Wikicide 10:56, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Who called the cops?

Is it not possible that John Henry called the police and informed them that Sarah would be at the theater? Earlier in the episode, he comments to Weaver that he finds Ellison to be "inefficient," in reference to his handling of Savannah's disappearance. A T-888 would have attempted to kill her, not turn her in to the police... NinjaHousewife 13:28, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Could be, but I doubt that John Henry has betrayed Ellison - he kept their secret (camera videos) from Weaver. So I vote for the cop who didn't trust Ellison and tailed him or Weaver who seems not very pleased of meeting Sarah, when Ellison told her about it. A terminator won't call the cops. -Wikicide 18:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes, but Weaver is a terminator too, and I doubt she would have called the cops. John Henry believes that Sarah killed Dyson, and he knows that Dyson's code underpins his own... I agree that it could well be that the cop had Ellison tailed, but it would be interesting if John Henry acted out of impatience, flagging faith, and self-preservation. NinjaHousewife 23:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Maria Shipkov: "Are you police?"

Cameron: "No, but I find them useful."

If we remember Cameron's line from the first season it could imply that Weaver may have called the police. We know that everything she does is in order to protect John Henry, so she may have called them to prevent Ellison from bringing Sarah Connor to see her. Another possibility:

Cameron: "Future you knows what it means to lose people you love. It happens to him, too. Your mother ditched us because she was going to ditch you. She was going to leave you with Charley."

It seemed like a theory at first, but if you think about it it makes sense. If Sarah were trying to ditch John and Cameron what better way to do it? She specifically watched to make sure that John and Cameron weren't going to be captured before attacking the police. While this could be a diversion there seemed to be something more to it. -Nx1701g 04:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

It may well wind up being that Crayton was tailing Ellison, but that would disappoint me. Ellison knew Crayton was suspicious of him, so I think that allowing himself to be followed to the theater would constitute a pretty major fumble on his part. That's Cops and Robbers 101. NinjaHousewife 15:07, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Who wanted to get Savannah and why?

I assumed that the machine sent to (assumably) kill Savannah at her home was sent by Skynet in the future, targeting the origins of the rival intelligence that we've now seen hinted at. Savannah seems key to John Henry's benevolent attitude toward humanity -- he's bonded much more closely with her than Ellison. Killing her, and making it look like a random act of violence on the part of some human, could set John Henry down a path of revenge that converges with that of Skynet. Or it might just be that future Skynet is trying to wipe out future splinter machine group, because the possibility of an alliance looms, and is dangerous.

I have to say that I have been blown away by the last several episodes. They've been shocking, sad, and have really moved the story forward. Great way to end the season! NinjaHousewife 13:28, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Water Delivery Guy notes/talk

I don't think you read properly at all: Why was this the only water tank guy was a terminator? I did not ask "How can a terminator be a water tank guy?" Why was this water tank guy doing his mission on a different day from the ones that went after Sarah, John & Charlie and Cameron & Derek? -HeavyArms 14:03, 6. Apr. 2009

The question about the assault day is similar to the discussion, why Sarah's transmitter seems to used by Kaliba (?) very late. -Wikicide 18:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

(I moved the non-fitting notes/answers here. -Wikicide 18:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC))

• It is possible that hacking into John Henry that he would have found information about Savannah who may or may not be a member of TechCom in the future, having being raised by a machine.
• It might also be part of a plot to blow the T-1001's cover as Catherine Weaver.
• We have seen Skynet Terminators in charge of groups of humans in the past (Coltan acquisition, for example).