Talk:Humanoid Hunter Killer Unit

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Is there a source for Humanoid Terminators being called Hunter Killers? From Reese's dialog, it seems clear to me that the term Hunter Killer only refers to the Tanks and Aircraft. —MJBurrage^(T•C) 13:44, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Yah I was wondering about this. In any case, if "Humanoid Hunter Killer Units" are the same as Terminators... then this article should be merged into the Terminator article anyway. Any objection to starting that merge? --Kanamekun 23:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Any objections to a merge with the Terminator article? --Kanamekun 16:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I've stumbled my way here, from some ongoing research of my own and just noticed this and despite it being 'old' I notice it (along with the below topic) seems to be unresolved. Far be it from me to try and rock the boat, or even use non canon elements from my argument but I have always been of the opinion, no the impression that Hunter-Killer, like mentioned throughout this discussion page, referred to the tanks and aircraft (as a classification, not necessarily the series or whatever itself if there were different production models), with Terminator(s) referring to the Humanoid combat (or infiltration) unit(s). I can, however see the line of reasoning that Hunter Killer is the name for the machines themselves, with it going down a list (Hunter Killer>Ariel/Tank(Ground)/Terminator>Class/Series##>Singular Unit). Using a certain line of thinking though (and perhaps the producers intent) is that Hunter-Killer/Terminator is the type/class/whatever, with the sublists/groups going down to different directions (Series Number, Models, Etc...). Did any of this make sense at all, because I am the one that wrote it and to be honest I don't know if I really understand what I am trying to say. --Terran Officer 05:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Machine Nomenclature and Sources

This statement Humanoid Hunter Killer Units which are the T-series... always bothered me on the Terminator page and I wanted to know the source of this. Because my mind screamed No! Hunter Killers are the HK-series! Terminators are the T-series! or something like that was said in my head. =) Anyway, I found that user Ozzel first posted this text change on January 17, 2008.

Later, after reviewing article histories and user talk pages, I've finally tracked down the source of this phrase Humanoid Hunter Killer. So user Ascaaear created this Humanoid Hunter Killer Unit page on Janaury 11, 2008. His source is the fansite made by Lizard_King at http://majesticlizard.tripod.com/index.html. Lizard_King decided to divide the Terminators into Humanoid Hunter Killer Units and the Hunter Killers into Non-Humanoid Hunter Killer Units based on the source of all his data: Christopher Shields's site Rage Against the Machines: Terminator 2029 AD. On his site you'll find that all the information is from Christopher's mind and is NOT canon.

Relevant quotes by Christopher Shields: This website represents an original, thought provoking and continuing extrapolation of James Cameron's ground breaking work. Materials and information found on this website are based on concepts and ideas that were first presented by James Cameron in his 1984 movie "The Terminator," the 1991 follow-up sequel "Terminator 2: Judgment Day" as well as the two novelizations of those movies. This site has been, is currently and will continue to be a work in progress attempting to pay homage to the incredible high technology presented in Cameron's unique dark vision of the near future. http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/contents.html

...I wanted to do something different with Cameron's vision; I wanted to adhere to it rather than stray this way and that from it...Over the decade in time that this site has been around, I've been amazed at the amount of email that I've received from other Terminator fans telling me that my site was refreshing and enjoyable. This site has been an inspiration to many people throughout the years. The work I have done has produced parts of a Terminator-based role playing game, two failed attempts at computer games, has found its way into other sites where it was considered canon due to its depth and detail, wound up on Wikepedia, and has inspired at least one piece of very good music written in the genre of a future world gone mad with technology...

...I'll say it again: this is not an official site of the Terminator universe. This is an extrapolation, it is one possible view of the yet unseen future, as suggested and researched by me through watching the two movies and reading the two novels of those movies... http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/authorsnotes.html

Anyway, unless there is some other credible source out there, I just don't believe that Terminators are the same as Hunter Killers. I mean we know there is the Hunter Killer series (mostly aircraft and tanks as user MJBurrage mentioned) and the Terminator series (human-like infiltrators), but maybe I guess I have a problem with Terminator being synonymous with Hunter Killer, because to me they are totally different types of machines. Maybe someone can help me wrap my mind around this stuff. =)

Instead of distinguishing between a Humanoid and Non-Humaniod Hunter Killer could we be more general and say Machine? Then divide it by the types of machines...so maybe the hierarchy would go like this:

Machines

• Hunter Killers
  • list here
• Terminators
  • list here

Going back to the Terminator page I mentioned, instead of it saying: There are two types of machines: the Humanoid Hunter Killer Units which are the T-series (also called terminators) and the Non-Humanoid Hunter Killers which are known as the HK-series (Hunter Killer).

maybe say: There are two types of machines: Hunter Killers, which are aerial and ground combat units, and Terminators, which are ground infiltrator units.

Let me know what you think or if you think I'm crazy or wrong or whatever that's fine too. Sorry for writing so much. =) — Jeiara 06:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the justification for the designation stands, mostly reinforced by the comics, games, and novels expansion on the terminator-verse. One of the unique concepts that differentiate the Terminators, are their Infiltrator sheaths. Prior to the introduction of the coverings, they quite literally were simply humanoid HKs. With the adoption of Terminator as a catchall slang for the humanoids, and HK the catch-all for everything else developing later. I'll double check, but in the DVD extras, discussing the Future War sections showing still legions of attacking Endoskeletons operating in conjuction with the aircraft and tanks, there was a distinction between between the Infiltration units as terminators and the field combat units in general as HKs. Perhaps segregating the game contributions (200-500, 700, 900) from the successor lines would work, but even then the 800s and 900s are still fielded in both configurations, as Terminator/Infiltrators and HKs. We should take the good faith contributions of our Game player membership at face value.

maybe say:

There are many types of machines used by Skynet as Hunter Killers; aerial and ground combat units; Terminators, which are humanoids that developed into ground infiltrator units; and intelligence gathering units.

• Hunter Killers
  • total list here
    • HK-Aerials
      • list here (HK-Drone / FK / Mini / TT-version / T2:JD-version / T3:RotM-version)
    • HK-Ground
      • list here (T1 / 300 / Centurion / Chrome Widow / Silverfish / Mini / TT-version / T2:JD-version / T3:RotM-version / Meg)
    • Terminators (aka humanoids, use redirect)
      • list here (70 / 90 / 200 / 400 / 500 / 600 / 700 / 8xx / 900 / 1000 / X)
        • Infiltrators (subset)
          • list here (600 / 700 / 800 / 8xx / 900 / I950 / TS300 / 1000 / X)

This puts everything under Skynet's command as a Hunter Killer (the basic function for everything) then breaks down the sub-categories. Fulongamer 08:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your response! I am still digesting it... meanwhile hopefully MJBurrage will pop in, he/she seems to be knowledgable with terminator nomenclature. Also, I was thinking, what about the I-950? It's not a Terminator or a Hunter Killer, more like a Hybrid for lack of a better term. Whenever we get this classification stuff sorted out, I'd like to start tagging our images, and work on an infobox. — Jeiara 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

For the I-950, I look at it this way...All the Humanoid HKs are colloquially Terminators, all the units with a Stealth covering are also Infiltrators. The I-950 is a specialist Infiltrator, and (as described in the capabilities section) can indeed function as an organic Terminator once the implants start animating the corpse. I wouldn't call this a hybrid in that unlike Dudley, the I-950 is entirely programmed/raised etc as a member of the Skynet heirarchy, and does not have a "humanity" to fall back into. It is a Meat Machine. Similarly the TS-300, the difference here being the Personality Transfgers used to program these come from real humans, causing the problems between the Alpha and Beta types. That and the TS-300 physically is also an artificial creation endoskeleton. The only specific Hybrid was Dudley, aka I825.M, an actual human subsumed by after-capture Cybernetic implants. Text references in the Novels also keep referring to the I-950 units as "Master Terminators" once their impact on events was detected.Fulongamer 18:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not 100% on this, because I do not have the time right now to double check (grad school projects are taking up my time) but with respect to the live action sources, I am pretty certain that Hunter-Killer only referred to the flying and tank units, where as Terminator referred to the humanoid units. As noted above, Infiltrator is a Terminator that can pass for human.

Now along these lines, the ground T-1 prototypes from Terminator 3 are considered by the T3 producers to be a fore-runner of both. The T-70 is of course the first "Terminator", and the T-600 is the first "Infiltration Terminator"

It is possible—given the small amount of detail on this subject in the live-action sources—that it is only being an Infiltrator that makes the humanoid units no longer classified as HK units. Does anyone have a citation from anything licensed (comic, novel etc.) where any humanoid is called an HK? If yes, than is there any licensed reference to an Infiltrator model being called an HK? With out such sources I think we should stick with Humanoids being a separate branch from Hunter-Killers, not a subset. —MJBurrage^(T•C) 21:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Here's the classification, according to Kyle Reese:

"You still have to be careful though because the HKs use infrared. But they're not too bright. John taught us ways to dust them. It was only when the infiltrators started to appear. Terminators were the newest. The worst."

So, it seems from this that Infiltrators are a class of HK, and that Terminators are a class of Infiltrator. Serendipodous 04:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that you can read that quote two ways and by the rules of English they re both valid. He could be narrowing focus throughout the quote (as you suggest), or he could be changing focus from HKs to Infiltrators. The problem is that (to my knowledge) we have no example of a direct reference to a humanoid robot as a "Hunter Killer".

I had always assumed that "You still have to be careful though because the HKs use infrared. But they're not too bright." was describing the tanks and aerial units. While "It was only when the infiltrators started to appear. Terminators were the newest. The worst." referred to the separate humanoid units. (My understanding was that Infiltrator meant a humanoid unit that can infiltrate the human underground complexes, and that Terminator meant an Infiltrator disguised as a human.)

My suggestion is that we do not explicitly call Infiltrators "Humanoid HK units" unless SCC Season Two, or Terminator 4 does (which would answer the question definitively). —MJBurrage^(T•C) 15:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)