Terminator vs. Terminator

From Terminator Wiki

Terminator vs. Terminator is an analysis of the critical features and elements of the combat ability and employed tactics of terminators when brought against themselves. All examples will be cited and explored in detail here. Terminators are shown to be both a versatile weapon for the Resistance, and a tool for Skynet.

Contents 1 Techniques 2 Tactics 3 Assessments (Movie) 3.1 Terminator 2: Judgment Day (T-800 (Terminator 2) vs T-1000 (character)) 3.2 Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (T-850 vs T-X) 3.3 Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (T-850 vs Series T-1/HK-Drone) 3.4 Terminator Salvation (Marcus Wright vs T-RIP) 4 Assessments (TSCC) 4.1 Season 1 4.1.1 "Pilot" (Cameron vs Cromartie) 4.1.2 "Gnothi Seauton" (Cameron vs Vick Chamberlain) 4.1.3 "Heavy Metal" (Cameron vs Carter) 4.1.4 "Queen's Gambit" (Cameron vs Vick Chamberlain) 4.1.5 "Dungeons & Dragons" (Cameron vs The Rogue) 4.1.6 Season 2 4.1.7 "Automatic for the People" (Cameron vs Greenway) 4.1.8 "The Tower Is Tall But the Fall Is Short" (Cameron vs Rosie) 4.1.9 "Brothers of Nablus" (Cromartie vs The Ellison Terminator) 4.1.10 "Complications" (Cameron vs Cromartie) 4.1.11 "Self Made Man" (Cameron vs Myron Stark) 4.1.12 "Alpine Fields" (Cameron vs The Fields Terminator) 4.1.13 "Adam Raised a Cain" (Cameron vs Water Delivery Guy) 4.1.14 "Born to Run" (Catherine Weaver vs Water Delivery Guy) 5 Assessments (other media) 5.1 Novels 5.2 Comics 5.2.1 The Terminator: Tempest 5.2.2 The Terminator: Secondary Objectives 5.2.3 Terminator 2: Infinity 5.2.4 The Terminator: Hunters and Killers 5.2.5 Terminator 3: Eyes Of The Rise 6 References

Techniques

Terminators of all Series use techniques suited to the opponent they are facing. If a terminator is unaware that it is facing another cyborg, it may mistakenly utilize a technique that would be totally effective against an organic. Once the presence of another unit is verified, the methodology must change to accommodate the strengths of the attacker, and the weaknesses of the target. The laws of physics will always apply to the amount of damage the terminators are able to directly apply to one another. They will also govern many of the advantages and limitations that are opened up when engaged in this kind of confrontation.

• Mass: Endoskeletons of like Terminator Series are often also of similar weight, with variations in mass generally defined by the addition of the Living tissue. ^{[1] [2]} With the revelation that Series 888 terminators may be stock configured across a wide range of physical dimensions, this becomes much more of a variable. In any case, endoskeletal units all mass much more than humans by the nature of their very construction ^[3] with special measures required to match human norms. ^[4]
• Force: Because the endoskeletons within a Series are all manufactured with identical power supplies and hydraulic actuators, no matter the individual variations in reach, or additional mass of either Endoskeleton weight or Living Tissue sheath, terminators are nearly uniform in the amount of force they can directly apply to each other. This means that even disparately sized units are evenly matched when subjected to feats of strength, unlike similarly mis-matched humans. However, when endoskeletons of different series meet, usually the higher series has the advantage in the application of Force, due to upgrades in power supply, endoskeletal durability, and actuator strength.
• Style: Outfitted with extensive files on human anatomy, and equipped with their powerful actuators and metal endoskeletons, the terminators have little use for martial arts as organics understand them, however they are as familiar with the unarmed fighting styles of humanity as they are with our weaponry. While strikes to vital organs and nerve clusters are useless against terminators, the physical manipulation elements of Ju-jitsu, KravMaga, Judo, and other Combatives techniques provide a useful arsenal for manipulation and redirection of mass through leverage, or joint locks and destruction or restriction of mobility and range of motion. As terminator production quality increases across the series, their flexibility improves, allowing them to be better infiltrators, but inversely offering an exploitable vulnerability as the joints have a more shock-absorbent reaction to blows, rather than being able to "tank" through them.
• Melee: Because of the evenly matched nature of endoskeletons when they must damage each other, the use of melee weapons is the most efficient means by which to gain a physical advantage. With the heavier masses they can lift, and the velocities they can attain, incredibly powerful blows can be delivered, far in excess of simple kicks and strikes.
• Ranged: The machine precision of the terminator makes ranged combat a very dangerous proposition. The incredibly durable nature of endoskeletons makes normal small arms relatively ineffective, but the terminator chassis is capable of lifting and firing accurately, many extremely heavy weapons. Conventional heavy machine guns, single shot and automatic grenade launchers are among the weapons that when brought to bear on a terminator, are capable of causing sufficient damage to impair or even destroy an opposing unit. Small arms are still useful, both for the destruction of an infiltration sheath in order to compromise the long term effectiveness of their stealth abilities, but due to the flexible nature of the endoskeleton, can still deliver enough sudden force to throw off aim, or turn a head to break line of sight or disrupt balance.
• Mimetic polyalloy: Mimetic polyalloy presents a number of unique challenges and options for the infiltrators so equipped, whether they make up the complete unit as in the T-1000 or the T-1001, or when incorporated as an endoskeleton enhancement, as in the T-X. Center of mass can be shifted at will to bring greater power to blows or to overcome leverage attempts to unseat or move the unit. For the pure liquid metal terminators, the surface tension can spall ahead of incoming blows to absorb and trap both weapons, projectiles, and physical strikes. In a classic mimetic-unique maneuver the T-1000 takes a punch to and through the face, morphing to replace the impaled head with a pair of grasping hands, shifting the head out the side and shoulder. This makes the liquid metal opponent a consummate grappler. Additionally, the ability to extrude at will any variety of slashing or stabbing weapons makes close quarters combat an unwelcome proposition. For units like the T-X, the volume of internal mass that can be shifted is also present but diminished, however it makes up for that by virtue of the improved endoskeleton. Capable of a complete torso 180 degree rotation, the unit is more flexible, faster, and stronger than any prior terminator fielded, and has the added assets of a wide variety of internally mounted weaponry, and releasable nanite control nodes that can spread its influence to other machines, and even other terminators.

Tactics

• Frontal Assault:
• Deception:
• Ambush:
• Capture:
• Environmental Assets:
• Self-Destructive Acts:
• Mimetic Polyalloy:

Assessments (Movie)

Terminator 2: Judgment Day (T-800 (Terminator 2) vs T-1000 (character))

John Connor captured and subverted an endoskeleton based terminator, T-800 to send back in time via Time Displacement Equipment to protect the pre-teen John and his mother Sarah. Its opponent is a prototype Series 1000 mimetic polyalloy infiltrator, the T-1000 (character).

Round 1: In the race to acquire John Connor first "Uncle Bob" and the T-1000 engage in a running gun battle through the Mall and stormdrains of Los Angeles. While the T-800 is focused on the protection of its primary objective, John, the T-1000 is focused on termination. Unable to directly harm the T-1000, the Endoskeleton alternatively decides to use environmental factors in its favor, by causing the T-1000 to break off the chase in a fiery truck crash.

Round 2: (Pescadero)

Round 3: (After Cyberdyne)

Round 4: (The Steel Mill): As the T-1000 had decided to deactivate the T-800 before moving in to terminate its targets so as to prevent further disruption, the T-1000 was the superior terminator in combat, at one point opening its chest section up to trap the T-800's intended punch. Later on, the T-1000 proceeded to cause significant damage to the T-800 by repeatedly crushing it against a wall with a suspended solid metal girder. The T-800 then collapsed to the ground, attempting to acquire a weapon. The T-1000 began stabbing it with a metal pole until a particularly well-struck blow impaled the T-800 to the ground, shutting it down. The T-1000 then headed to terminate John Connor, but was interrupted by repeated shot gun rounds to the body by Sarah Connor. Each shot pushed the T-1000 towards a pool of molten hot liquid, but Sarah's gun ran out of ammo just before the last shot required. The T-800, at this point had rebooted and reconnected by an alternative line. It arrived just in time to fire an explosive round into the T-1000, heavily disfiguring its mimetic polyalloy frame and almost breaking it into three pieces. Unable to maintain its balance in such a shape, the T-1000 tumbles into the molten pool, which utterly destroys it.

Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (T-850 vs T-X)

Katherine Brewster captured and subverted a endoskeleton based terminator, T-850 to send back in time via Time Displacement Equipment to protect the teenage John and other targeted members of the Resistance. Its opponent is a prototype Series T-X mimetic polyalloy and endoskeleton hybrid infiltrator, the T-X.

Round 1: (The Pet Hospital): The T-850 momentarily disrupts the T-X by running a truck into it as the T-X was preparing to terminate Katherine Brewster. As the T-850 is distracted by his human objectives due to misunderstanding, the T-X fires a plasma round from its onboard weaponry, damaging one of its own power cells and rendering the T-850 offline for a period of time. (Note that the T-850 is specially built to withstand plasma fire, and if it was a T-800 like the one in terminator 2 that was sent to protect the humans, the T-X would have permanently destroyed the T-800 and moved on to terminate her targets without further interruption.)

Round 2: (Sarah Connor's Grave): The T-X intent on terminating Katherine Brewster, was oblivious to its surroundings and when the T-850 arrives, it charges up its plasma weapon a moment too late, only to be hit by a bazooka fired by the T-850. It quickly recovers however and pursues its targets who were aboard a hearse, driven by the T-850. It lands on the car and rips off the roof. John Connor slows it down by continuously firing at it, and the T-850 deliberately runs the car underneath a truck, knocking the T-X off and damaging its dreaded plasma weapon.

Round 3: (CRS): The T-X initially was only intent on terminating General Brewster, and did not expect any heavy resistance, but the T-850 suddenly appears and fires repeatedly, knocking the T-X through an elevator vent. Later on in the second encounter, the T-X decides to utilize the T-850 to terminate John Connor by making use of its nanobots, and the two terminators engage heavily in pure melee. The T-850 and T-X appear to be evenly matched, shoving and hurling each other through walls and floors, and the T-850 finally traps the T-X in a full body lock, but the T-X twists around with its superior flexibility and fires a flame torch straight into the face of the T-850, possibly causing disruption to its CPU. The T-850 manages to free itself by shocking the T-X with a live cable, but after both terminators are hurled across the area in opposite directions, it appears that the T-X was unaffected by the shock, while the T-850 was rendered helpless by the high temperature. The T-X then knocks its head off to expose the T-850's internal wiring, and proceeds to alter the T-850's directives with its nanobots.

Round 4: (Crystal Peak): The T-X had now set its mission objectives solely to terminating John Connor and Kate Brewster. The T-850 had rebooted, reverting the alteration from the T-X's nanobots and was once again intent on defending the humans. The T-X arrives at Crystal Peak via helicopter, which she carelessly allows to crash. As she began moving towards her targets, the T-850 follows suit, but in a much larger helicopter which slides over the wreckage of the first and crushes the T-X which vainly attempted to evade it. The T-850 quoted "I'm Back." as it exited from the wreckage and maintained the now closing entry to the facility for the humans by holding it up. The T-X that had seemed to lost its mimetic polyalloy covering was trapped beneath the wreckage by its legs and disconnected from it, crawling after its targets. At one point the T-X managed to grab John Connor's ankle and proceeded to attempt to drag him back but the T-850 snaps the T-X's wrist. The T-X, completely ignoring the T-850 attempted to crawl after its targets, but the T-850 pulls it back and inserts his last remaining fuel cell into the T-X's mouth. The cell detonates, destroying both terminators.

Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (T-850 vs Series T-1/HK-Drone)

In addition to the threat posed by the T-X, the prototype HK-Drones and Series T-1 Non-Humanoid Hunter Killers are unleashed at the CRS facility, subverted to Skynet dominion by the T-X nanobots.

Round 1: (CRS)The T-850 decides to utilize stealth on one of the two T-1 units, leaping from the ceiling on top of it, twisting its head and disconnecting its CPU from its body. The T-850 then takes one of its mounted gatling guns and fires at the other unit, which only realized the T-850's presence when being shot at. The two exchange fire, before the T-1 is hit with a few rounds on the head.

Terminator Salvation (Marcus Wright vs T-RIP)

Marcus Wright was a human, but was converted into a Prototype Infiltrator by Skynet. His opponent is a prototype Series 800 Terminator who tries to kill John Connor.

Round 1: In order to save John Connor, who is being attacked by a prototype T-800 Terminator, Marcus tackles the Terminator from behind. He then grapples with the T-800 and drags it away from John. Since the T-800 is primarily concerned with terminating John, it does not focus on the fight with Marcus and allows him to throw it against walls and pillars. Marcus then grabs a steel bar and beats the the terminator with it several times. However, the T-800 showed it's superior strength by grabbing Marcus' right wrist in mid-swing and punches him across the floor. The terminator starts to toss him around and uses a cinder block to smash Marcus against a steel column. It then scans Marcus' body and sees his human heart, identifying it as a point of vulnerability and hits his chest with tremendous force. The T-800's strength is sufficient to stop his heart. KO - T-800 victor

Round 2: John Connor uses a power cable to give Marcus an electric shock and successfully revives him. However, John is impaled through his chest from the back with a steel bar by the T-800. Marcus becomes enraged, breaking the steel bar and ramming it though the neck of the terminator and decapitating it with ease. Flawless Victory - Marcus victor

Assessments (TSCC)

Season 1

"Pilot" (Cameron vs Cromartie)

Cromartie is a Series 888 terminator deployed via TDE on a mission to find and terminate John Connor. Cameron is a resistance subverted terminator of unknown design ^[5] sent back by John to protect his younger self. The initial battle occurs in the classroom and parking lot of John's high school.

Round 1: Cameron places herself in the line of fire to protect John when Cromartie reveals himself and starts shooting. By using deception, she plays dead allowing Cromartie to dismiss her as a non-threat. This permits her to flank Cromartie unawares and blindside him with a pickup truck at high speed, forcing a sudden severe impact shutdown. Escape is her mission so she takes the 120 second reboot as a TKO and escapes with John. TKO - Cameron victor

While John and Cameron make their escape, Sarah is taken prisoner by Cromartie. Setting up a meet at the Connor's house, Cromartie is still unaware that another terminator has entered the fray and falls prey to a surprise reversal of his prepared ambush.

Round 2: Cameron again uses deception, as Cromartie is as yet unaware of another terminator opposing him, to again take shots while impersonating John to draw Cromartie into melee. Physically smaller, and therefore massing less, with less reach, Cameron is at a slight disadvantage, however their mechanical frames appear to be evenly matched for power, when able to apply leverage. Both units are able to fling each other around with some ease, up to and including Cameron seizing on a structural weakness in the floor and Cromartie's greater mass to drive them into the basement. There she is able to temporarily disable him again with the direct application of a main power cable for the house (240v main line current). Another reboot ensues, affording a break for the Connors and Cameron to escape again. TKO - Cameron victor

Round 3: Expecting an attack when visiting the Dyson household, the Connors switch vehicles again and run over Cromartie again with an SUV. Able to take the hit and rapidly recovering, Cromartie then falls prey to the contingency plan, explosives command detonated in the old vehicle. Unable to recover in time, the Connors escape again. Draw

Round 4: (Ranged Combat) As a last ditch effort to evade the pursuit of Cromartie, Cameron leads the Connors to the TDE concealed in a bank. There she also assembles an anti-terminator isotope weapon from stored components and issues it to Sarah to cover them while she activates the TDE. Firing on him as he rips his way into the vault through the forming time sphere, Cromartie's ravaged body is blasted and his decapitated head ends up joining them in the Time Sphere. Cromartie is offline until his Head and Endoskeleton are reunited in 2007. KO - Sarah Connor victor; Cameron with the Assist

"Gnothi Seauton" (Cameron vs Vick Chamberlain)

Round 1: Exploring a Resistance safe house, Cameron is confronted with the Series 888 Terminator, Vick Chamberlain, utilizing stealth to play dead among the bodies while awaiting the last cell member. Melee combat swiftly escalates, again evenly matched for power, ceding the advantage of mass and reach to Vick. Both terminators end up exiting through the window and Vick opts to reassess his situation with another terminator present, and chooses retreat. Sarah attempts to head him off with a commandeered motorcycle, bringing him down, but Cameron is unable to retake the advantage when she ends up headfirst through the windshield of a passing car. Vick escapes. Forfeit - Cameron victor

"Heavy Metal" (Cameron vs Carter)

Round 1: Pursuing Carter to Depot 37, Cameron prepares to assault the unit in standby before it can reboot in 15 seconds. John has changed the plan and is attempting to steal the truck full of coltan. Cameron seizes the initiative quickly before Carter reactivates, with a body throw but is unable to distract, disable, or restrain Carter once he gets his hands on a bar of coltan. Beating her severely with the bar, Carter is able to maneuver to stop the truck, and overpowers the engine, forcing the truck back. Sarah intervenes with a distracting shotgun blast to the face, disrupting Carter's traction, allowing the fully laden truck to overrun him. Cameron has time to activate the bunker doors and flee with the key, trapping Carter inside in an undetermined state of damage (the most severe of which was applied by the truck) Technicality - Carter victor

"Queen's Gambit" (Cameron vs Vick Chamberlain)

"Dungeons & Dragons" (Cameron vs The Rogue)

Round 1: When The Rogue attacks Depot II, Cameron comes to the rescue of Derek Reese to put down the rampaging terminator. Cameron seizes the initiative quickly with a powerful KravMaga twin-palm strike used to catapult the other unit straight through a half-foot thick bunker wall. This is possible because of the combination of the whole-body delivery of the Military Combatives maneuver with the hydraulic rams of the terminator's internal actuators. Immediately switching from Style to Ranged Cameron fires a M-79 grenade launcher point-blank into the prone unit terminating it.Flawless Victory - Cameron victor

Season 2

"Automatic for the People" (Cameron vs Greenway)

"The Tower Is Tall But the Fall Is Short" (Cameron vs Rosie)

’’Round 1’’: Cameron struck first, initiating a fight between the two, which at first appeared to be an even conflict of strikes and slams but Cameron quickly established her superiority over Rosie. With a powerful thrust-kick from Cameron, Rosie was catapulted completely down the hallway and back against the elevator bank they had both just rode up in. Isolating Rosie inside the lift, Cameron tried various joint-locks to dislocate Rosie's arms, but she proved to be remarkably flexible and was able to mostly overcome and counter Cameron's forced contortions, threatening Cameron with mostly direct damage assaults augmented by attempts at joint damage. The environment of the elevator was used to good effect by both units as a means to limit maneuverability and as a hard surface for striking their opponent against. Cameron suffered some joint damage and Rosie’s living tissue sheath was severely compromised about her face.

The fight came to an unexpected halt, however, as both machines sought anonymity in the presence of humans. Taking a moment to effect limited self repairs, both units worked to reset their dislocated shoulders and conceal their mechanical natures from the clueless humans.

’’Round 2’’: Once they were gone, they resumed their fight, resulting in Cameron forcing Rosie to the floor in a corner, who tried to retaliate by wrapping her legs around Cameron. Cameron turned this against her, however, and forced Rosie's own heel into her left eye before proceeding to contort her body in such a way that she was no longer a threat. Using superior leverage, Cameron was able to trap all of Rosie’s limbs within themselves and had the force necessary to prevent Rosie from powering out of the lock. Cameron then broke her neck, effectively cutting off direct control from Rosie's Neural Net CPU to her endoskeleton. Pyrrhic Victory - Cameron victor

Cameron would later try to remove Rosie's chip, only for it to self-destruct upon removal, a new feature for Terminators that suggests Skynet’s desperation to prevent reprogramming in the future. This also may serve as another example of a terminator performing a self-destructive act to prevent future compromise, as both the Head and Body could presumably reactivate and perform repairs much in the same way that Cromartie did. ^[1] This action was either self initiated by the terminator’s “conscious” CPU once it detected a CPU port open ^[2], or was hardwired into the CPU bay as an anti-tamper device.

"Brothers of Nablus" (Cromartie vs The Ellison Terminator)

Cromartie ambushes The Ellison Terminator when it arrives at the agents house to effect his termination and replacement. Striking with a long metal bar from behind, he impales the unit when it was distracted by confirming its designated target. Swiftly ripping the bar back out, Cromartie then thrust his hand completely through other terminator's back ripping the power cell out the front of the unit. Cromartie - Flawless Victory

"Complications" (Cameron vs Cromartie)

Cromartie pursues John Connor into the small Mexico town of his childhood upon release of Connor's information into the Interpol network. Bringing Sarah along as a potential asset, and aware that Cameron is operating with a damaged chip, he is confident that he will be able to achieve his primary mission, the termination of John Connor. Further reassured of the logic inherent in his preservation of Agent Ellison as an asset, Cromartie follows Ellison after he comes out into the abandoned street to get a first aid kit from the trunk of his car.

Round 5: (Ranged Combat) With the Connors, Derek, Cameron, and Agent Ellison linked up in Mexico, they use Cromartie's fixation on Ellison to bait the unit into a trap. In a Sergio Leone-esque epic gun battle in a rustic church, Cromartie is ambushed by a crossfire of precise direct small arms fire provided by Sarah and Derek. This allows Cameron to position herself to deliver repeated short range shots to the head with depleted uranium shotgun slugs, rapidly penetrating and destroying the components contained inside the left side of Cromarties head. Severely damaged, to the point of near complete immobilization (his empty trigger fingers were on "automatic") Cromartie's terminator protocols were forced offline (indicated by the lack of a terminator HUD in his last moments). As his opponents gathered around the fallen terminator, Cromartie's last input was the sight of John Conor putting a bullet into his breached cranium at point blank range, forcing him permanently offline. Cameron then extracted the primary CPU and delivered it to Sarah who promptly crushed it on a rock with a rifle butt. KO - John Connor victor; Cameron with the Takedown

"Self Made Man" (Cameron vs Myron Stark)

Cameron discovers Stark's hiding place in the building he constructed. She destroys the wall and find him to be "awake". She takes his Tommy Gun and pulls it away, shooting him up but doing little to no damage. The two engage in a shoving match, with Cameron having the upper hand. Eventually she throws him down an elevator shaft.

Myron starts to climb back out, grabbing Cameron by the foot. Cameron grabs the elevator's line, pulling it down onto Myron and trapping him partially in the shaft. Then she (presumably) pulls out and destroys his chip.

Cameron - Victory

"Alpine Fields" (Cameron vs The Fields Terminator)

"Adam Raised a Cain" (Cameron vs Water Delivery Guy)

"Born to Run" (Catherine Weaver vs Water Delivery Guy)

Round 1: Catherine confronts the Water Delivery Guy in the parking garage underneath the Zeira Corporation building. The T-888 confirms her identity by stating her name, then fires numerous rounds into her. Catherine is undaunted, merely staring at her "wounds" as the polyalloy repairs itself. She then extends her right arm into a long stabbing weapon, pinning the Water Delivery Guy against his car. With her left arm, she penetrates a nearby circuit enclosure, causing high voltage to conduct through her polyalloy and into the T-888, effectively short circuiting him. Catherine Weaver - flawless victory^[1]

Assessments (other media)

Novels

Comics

The Terminator: Tempest

• (I825.M vs T-800s)

The Terminator: Secondary Objectives

• (I825.M vs C890.L) (C890.L vs Z000.M)

Terminator 2: Infinity

• (Infinity vs T-800)
• (Uncle Bob vs T-800s)

The Terminator: Hunters and Killers

• (Sergi Pavlichenko vs Pavlichenko Unit)
• (Pavlichenko Unit vs Skynet Endoskeletons)

Terminator 3: Eyes Of The Rise

• (TX vs T-1002)

References

1. ↑ Catherine's victory could be considered flawless since the T-888's bullets didn't actually do any damage.